Joel Osteen on pork

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15 thoughts on “Joel Osteen on pork

  1. You know, here in Oregon, the various creeds of Russian Old Believers (about 5 of them) teach that the OT dietary restrictions apply to Christians also. For example, they will not eat rabbit because it is one of the unclean animals (a big rat, really). They will also not eat shrimp. Likewise, bear, but here, I think, they are guided by some old pagan beliefs. They will, however, eat pig, but here is why: Although they believe that the animal is unclean and not fit for food, they say that it was pig gall that Christ was given when He was on the cross. According to the Old Believers, the Jews suggested this to the Roman soldiers in order to further defile Christ (since He was a Jew, and should not have been touching or eating pig). Because of this, the Old Believers say, the Fathers taught all Christians to eat pig in order to mock the malice of the Jews… So, this is not unique to Joel.

  2. Majka:

    As far as women covering their heads, almost none of the women cover their heads in my parish, not even Matushka, the priest’s wife. One older Russian lady approached me one day and thanked me for covering my head. She said perhaps by my example more of the women will begin to wear head coverings.

    As far as I understand, women in all Christian traditions used to cover their head until the feminist movement in the 1960’s. After Vatican II, most Catholic women stopped wearing mantillas. My husband remembers when his mother used to cover her head in the Anglican Church. Modernism has since crept in and even in many Orthodox churches here in America women have stopped wearing head coverings.

    Sad to say, I see this as a departure of historical Christianity in its practice and from Scripture in which St.Paul made it a “rule” in all of the churches.

    I find it odd that I, a relatively new Orthodox Christian, must be the one in my parish to influence the cradle Orthodox women to cover their heads.

  3. First, let me say emphatically that I believe Osteen’s understanding of what it is to be a Christian is seriously flawed. But, he cannot, and should not be lumped into the category of all other Protestants. Having immersed myself in the Protestant ethos for many decades, I discovered the differences among those under this banner.

    There are any number of nuances to vast distinctions and differences among the wayward children of the Roman Catholic Church. And claiming them to be wayward from the RCC does not mean in any way that I consider the RCC to be the bulwark of truth and salvation. 🙂

    For example there are categories one must recognize when talking about “Protestants.” Categories such as:

    Classical Protestants: Confessional Lutherans (Missour Synod and WELS)
    High Church Presbyterians: OPC, PCA
    Anglicans adhering to the Reformational tenants
    Reformed Baptists holding to the Reformational tenants, but low church in worship and non-sacramental in “ordinances” of Baptism and the Lord’s Supper.
    Dutch Reformed Calvinists, although they are a dying breed.

    Revivalist Protestants: These are the low-church type who stressed the “Bible alone” and relegate the Creeds to the hymnal without corporately reciting them. In this category would be:
    Evangelical Free Church
    Bible Fellowship Church
    Many arminian Baptist churches such as: Independent Baptist, Southern Baptist (although some of these are Calvinist/Reformed), Free-will Baptist, Primitive Baptist, and a few others that don’t come to mind off-hand.
    Church of the Brethren
    Mennonites: although in this category there are the old-order, conservative and liberal.
    Wesleyans
    Christian Missionary Alliance
    Methodists (conservative): these broke off from the mainline Methodist Church to preserve the teachings and practices of John Wesley and that movement.
    Evangelical Congregational

    Mainline churches: Lutherans: ELCA, accepted women pastors and homosexuals unions, even homosexual clergy.
    Episcopalians USA: who can even begin to describe this aberration? Women priests, homosexual priests, advocate same-sex marriage, abortion, stem-cell research, reject the trinity, incarnation, resurrection, the Holy Scritures, the list is endless. Really, they are not a church but apostates.
    Presbyterians PCUSA: on the path to becoming like the Episcopalians.
    United Church of Christ: right up there with the Episcopalians.
    American Baptist Church: departed from the conservative Baptist movements. On the way to becoming like the rest of the liberal mainlines.

    Charismatic churches: Believe in gifts of the Spirit, esp. speaking in tongues and prophesy.
    Assembly of God
    Churches of God
    Pentecostal Holiness
    African-Methodist-Episcopal: pentecostal in worship but liberal in theology often teaching the “social” gospel.

    Restorationist churches: Pattern themselves after the New Testament Church and consider that they have restored in the “last days” what the church has lost. IOW, they are the “true” Church.
    Churches of Christ: patterned after the Cambelite Movement
    Landmark Baptist Church
    Baptists who hold to “trail of blood” theory.

    Non-denominational churches: Here we can have any number of beliefs that have filtered in. They break away from any of the above denominations (and ones I forgot to mention) in order to be free of hard and fast rules and hierarchy. Many preach being born-again, or making a decision for Christ, or saying the “Sinners Prayer.” They stress the priesthood of all believers in the Protestant context. They usually have praise bands with the congregation singing praise choruses. Many have dispensed with hymn books and have the big projector screens in the front where the altar used to be. Casual is the theme of the day, casual dress, casual posture, casual worship, casually dressed preachers, casual architecture, etc. They stress experience over doctine and dogma. Latter can be a “dirty” word in many of these churches.

    Word of Faith churches: Using the scriptures to “take authority” over every situation. Emotional preaching which includes yelling, demeaning the congregation even sometimes mocking them, and all sorts of weird body language. Rejection of the Trinity, Creeds, Councils, basically historic Christianity. Really and truly a heretical cult.

    Seventh Day Adventists: Relatively a new sect springing from the “prophetess” Ellen G. White. They follow many of the old levitical laws as regards the dietary laws and meeting on the Sabbath (Saturday).

    Quakers: although why mention these since they’re nearly extinct.

    Home church movement: rejecting all the above to get back to a more simplistic view of the Christian life. Highly stress reading the Bible and memorizing scripture, meeting weekly to pray with/for and share their faith with each other. Often stress friendship evangelism and good works in the community.

    Amish: Sprang from the Menno Simons and Mennonites, yet hold to rejecting modern technology and conveniences. They meet informally in each other’s homes on Sunday, reading the Scriptures and praying.

    Of course, there are even divergences from all the above, hence why there are so many schisms which result in many denominational splits resulting from many interpretations of Scripture and what it means to be a genuine Christian.

    All this to say that the term “Protestant” has become quite inadequate since it does not address all the nuances. I suppose we could say they are Prostestant in that they all have departed from the Roman Catholic Church. 🙂

  4. You are all right…I didn’t watch the clip all the way through. All that talk about pork was just making me salivate. It’s unfortunate more Protestants don’t read the Bible all the way through. Maybe their women would start covering their heads.

    Let the countdown to сланина and сухо месо begin!

  5. Just finished making a kolac for the coming feast day of Sts. Peter & Paul (it’s my devojacka slava, both of my parents have reposed & there is no one to continue..long story)…and am planning a delicous pork chops dinner for the feast. Poor Osteen can go whistle Dixie..Popadija Tatiana is correct…buy local & you’re just fine…and the picture with Father Milovan bringing in the roast pig for Bozic is priceless!

    A Blessed Feast Day to all!!

    Mira

  6. True. As a former Protestant(it’s a long story), I made it a point to study the Bible. When I would read authors such as A.W.Tozer(for whom I still hold a lot of respect), I felt at home and at ease. Later as I began noticing the “in” books and authors and read some of them, I realized there was a complete disconnect between the “in” people and such as A.W. Tozer.

    The fact remains, as you pointed out Father, that Mr. Osteen is not in any meaningful way steeped in the ethos of the Holy Scriptures, not even close by older, conservative Protestant standards.

    And Romanos, your observations are spot on.

  7. Yes, Father, that is what shocked me the most when I began interacting with non-Catholics, non-Orthodox, Christians (I almost can’t call them Protestants because they have fallen so far away from their origins), it was their complete disrespect and ignorance of the Bible that they say they go by, using the sola scriptura philosophy. I would say that most of them are no longer sola scriptura but rather solo mio. Instead of letting the Word teach them, they try to teach Him!

  8. In any case he convinced me: where’s that bacon I did without during the Apostles’ Fast? Let me at it!

    Actually, his argument about pig had a certain wisdom about it and I was considering what he was saying. Then when he got to shellfish, I instantly thought about our Orthodox monastics who though they do not eat pig, do eat shellfish.

    Thank God for the wisdom in the Church and the truth of all the matter whether in food or whatever. How easy to fall prey to any motivational speaker’s whims without Her.

  9. Brother Joel,

    You are a cute young man and y’all sure know how to talk up a storm, and I can see from this video that your talkin’ can draw a biiiiig crowd, but please, brother, go read your bible, don’t just sit on it! Give your little pep talk to brother Peter and Paul and the other apostles, and see what they have to say about it, please. I know it feels good to think you’re eatin’ right and honoring God at the same time, brother, but the Jesus I know says, “Surely life means more than food and the body more than clothing!” And from the look of it, most o’ the folks in your audience look like they could do with a little less fat and expensive shell fish, but hey, let’s get ’em motivated to “seek first the Kingdom of God, and His righteousness (not ours), and all these other things will be added (and taken care of) as well.” For all your pep talk, you can’t change your hair from black to white, or white to black, unless you use hair coloring. And one more thing, brother, it’s not what you cram down yer throat, but what comes out of it, that makes you clean or unclean. Respect it!

    Romanos

  10. српска мајка: You obviously didn’t see it through to the end. He was just geting into his anti-shellfish stride when the clip cut out.

  11. He did advise his followers against eating shellfish. I would love to know what he does with the passage in Scripture where it says Christ made all foods clean. The only exception to that I can think of in the NT is the council at Jerusalem asking Gentiles not to eat blood (which is fine with me).

  12. I am surprised he didn’t advise his “Christian” flock against shellfish too.

    Pigs are one of the only farm animals that won’t eat themselves to death. Both horses and cows, if allowed free reign over grain/corn in the barn, will eat until their stomachs go sour, even to death. (I had a horse that this happened too.) Pigs are one of the smartest animals, as smart as primates according to recent studies: http://mammals.suite101.com/article.cfm/the_intelligent_pig

    I’m surprised this Osteen character tell his congregation that the pig “чешљала се од џамије”, and that’s why it’s forbidden.

    I say we issue a Fatwah on this fool.

    Three more days ’til I eat a juicy pork chop!

  13. 😀

    Thank you so very much for sharing this!

    I was first introduced to Osteen when I worked for an online Christian bookshop and wondered who this chap was whose books people were so keen to order. As I looked him up, I realised that he is really more of a motivational speaker than anything else, and that God gets included in the dressing. Yet there’s something sweetly amusing about him, perhaps because he talks a bit like Cletus from The Simpsons and perhaps because he’s quite happy to share with the world what’s in his fridge and why. In any case, I chuckled.

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