Preaching about the God-man
2009 October 22
Bishop Veron Ashe….He looks Orthodox, quotes Orthodox fathers… Don’t know if anyone knows more about him. Just curious. Don’t think I’ve ever heard a Protestant preacher quote St. Basil of Caesarea.
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You know, I actually met Veron Ashe at the large Christian bookstore where I used to work. I found him to be a smart, witty, and charming man, and it was a pleasure to wait on him.
He seems to have dropped off the face of the earth, but back then he claimed to belong to the Mar Thoma Church, a group that (to grossly generalize) arose from a 19th-century Reformation among the Indian Monophysites.
I’ve been doing some traveling and actually posted this while in Chicago.
Romanos, I pretty much agree with you. There are many Orthodox who get “turned off” by Orthodoxy for whatever reason and then go to Protestantism because it’s fresh and exciting. Let’s hope they too, like you once, are “brought to their senses”.
For whatever it’s worth I find the so-called bishop interesting and I believe it when Father Yohannes says that a clergy friend found him to be “very impressive, educated.”
To Byzantine Rambler, I respond. He wrote, “What should be considered is the question whether his preaching style could, in orthodox hands, be usefully employed to evangelize.”
I used to think this was possible. In fact, I used to follow with interest the “ministry” of Benny Hinn. I even ushered at one of his “crusades” with my wife when he came to Portland. I was proud of the fact that he was a Greek Orthodox who was bringing Orthodox teachings that the non-Orthodox world might never hear except for him. I considered him to still be an Orthodox Christian, just one who was witnessing outside of the churchly structure, which is something I do myself. Seeing him personally at close range and behind the scenes, he seemed to me to be what an early Christian bishop would be like. Because of the positives that I thought I saw, I was ready to defend him and overlook it when he sometimes said or did something that was undeniably unorthodox.
I can’t go into detail, but after about ten years of advocating him even to my fellow Orthodox who graciously tolerated me, I was brought to my senses by the bad effect his televised programs, and those of others such as Kenneth and Gloria Copeland (Believer’s Voice of Victory), Bishop Jakes, and others were having on my family. I realised this too late, and much damage was done. So now, when I see the way Veron Ashe imitates the style of the pentecostal “preacher”, it sends up red flags.
I too am inspired when I hear or read Chrysostom’s Paschal address, but our church fathers NEVER pranced before the people inciting their flesh like these so-called pentecostals. It’s not just a “style” or a cultural expression that men (and women) like Veron Ashe are presenting. It is at its source a fundamental spirit of blasphemy, of putting themselves in place of God, of “speaking wild words about Yahweh” as did the false prophets in the days of ancient Israel.
Orthodox Christianity is the true pentecostal Church, the true charismatic Church, that has existed with Christ in its midst from the days of the apostles. Personalities like Veron Ashe are false prophets, as are all or almost all who get beamed to us over the air waves from TBN (Trinity Broadcasting Network).
Fr Milovan, I trust your judgment as to whether to let my comment be printed or not. I am not writing polemics, just giving my testimony, but I will understand it if you decide to delete this comment.
The Humpty Dumpty piece was better. Is there a part 2 to that?
I have come across a few videos of the ‘good bishop’ a month or so ago. His dubious history trail and current illness makes it seemingly impossible to get clear information of wherein now lies his heart.
What should be considered is the question whether his preaching style could, in orthodox hands, be usefully employed to evangelize. We should realize that what makes a “Chrysostom” in one language and culture might not be equal to the cultural expectations of another. Even so, whenever I hear or read over St John Chrysostom’s Paschal Sermon I find much more in common with the style of bishop Vern than many current Bishops of the Church.
What this man shows is that one can quote the Church Fathers and faithfully (at least in principle) proclaim the True Faith in a lively manner that can speak to the hearts of people who expect more than a dry academic lecture-like soliloquy.
Fr Milovan, when I left my earlier comment I had not taken time to actually watch the video, but I just did, about half-way thru, then I just couldn’t stand the pentecostalism of his “style” and that crazy sounding organ adding musical flourishes to his pronouncements.
Forgive me, Father, I used to think that pentecostalism could be tolerated in the Church, but after seeing it divide my family by its inroads and false teachings, regardless of how many church fathers its preachers quote, or even if they say the words of the symbol of Nicaea as if they believed it, they are workers of inquity and carnal manipulators of souls, especially of weakminded people and of women.
It is with great anguish of soul and sorrow that I have to say this, but pentecostalism, and even this “bishop”, are not of the Holy Spirit. Our Orthodox faith is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. These others are liars.
Veron Ashe is an non-canonical Orthodox bishop. Here are his stats. By the way, he is currently very ill, as far as I know, with colon cancer.
Ashe, Veron (“Mar Enoch”)
Bishop, Mar Thoma Orthodox Church Outside of India
The Most Rev. Veron Ashe (“Mar Enoch”)
1133 East Olive Avenue, Fresno, California 93728 USA
Phone: 559.237.6220
Email: SaintThomas@webtv.net
Web: http://www.angelfire.com/mt/marthoma/bishop.html
Current Public Ministry:
- Pastor, Saint Mary of Magdala Cathedral, Fresno, CA (att: 50).
- Prophetic ministry, preaching in Churches in North America, Europe, Africa and India.
Faith of Origin: Roman Catholic, then Pentecostal/Charismatic.
Entered the Autocephalous Movement: 1996
Education:
- BA, Miami Christian College in Miami, FL.
Ordinations:
- Bishop, 1997.01.25, by several bishops, incl. Abp. Joseph “Papa Joe” Vredenburg, Bp. David C. Strong and Bp. Michael Melchizedek.
Father,
While I have never met this man in person I do know that while he may preach using the Orthodox Fathers he is not part of the Canonical Orthodox Church. His background is Pentecostal Protestant as I recall. At one time he was in dialog with the Oriental Orthodox Church in India, even traveled there a number of time I understand, but those talks seem to have died on the vine. A personal friend (Priest) has met him several times and says he very impressive, educated. The last word he had was that he was suffering a serious physical illness, in hospital, in the State of Virginia.